I was need to know, if I put a +1/+1 counter on Simic Ringworm, can I tap one blue mana to untap Experiment Kraj? This is a really interesting question. Or maybe this stops at the second Kraj taking the ability from each other creature once, ending up with 2 instances of the ability and 4 total on the battlefield (1 on Patron, 1 on Kraj #1, 2 on Kraj #2)? Let's say you have 2 Experiment Kraj (via Mirror Gallery or something) and a Patron of the Orochi on the battlefield, each with at least one +1/+1 counter on it. I looked for a reliable clarification but came up empty. 613.7a. then "Simic Ringworm" would be replaced with "This Creature." Quicksilver Elemental on the other hand, though its not in the cards text, ruled that if it says something like [{U} untap Simic Ringworm.] or does Experiment Kraj now inherit the ability to untap Simic Ringworm only? Get your answers by asking now. 613.7b. The rulling for Kraj is to clarify that Kraj doesn't have this same ability as Quicksilver Elemental. If several dependent effects form a dependency loop, then this rule is ignored and the effects in the dependency loop are applied in timestamp order. 613.1. Suppose kraj #1 entered the battlefield first: we apply kraj #1's effect first, giving kraj #1 two abilities: the counter-adding ability from kraj #2 and the untapping ability from patron of the orochi. An effect dependent on one or more other effects waits to apply until just after all of those effects have been applied. Each is dependant on the other, so the dependency loop is ignored and the effects get applied in timestamp order. Yes, you can untap it then. Press J to jump to the feed. Experiment Kraj rulings: 2006-05-01: Unlike with cards like Quicksilver Elemental, the costs of the activated abilities Experiment Kraj gains must be paid with the correct colors of mana. [This card] in this case will be Experiment Kraj. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=43045, Experiment Kraj is a legendary creature so it would be destroyed as per the legendary rule. It was, technically speaking, an enormous body made of cytoplasts, with a huge neuroboretum cluster for its brain. Join Yahoo Answers and get 100 points today. Project Kraj was a secret project of the Simic guildmaster Momir Vig. or does Experiment Kraj now inherit the ability to untap Simic Ringworm only? How do you think about the answers? or does Experiment Kraj now inherit the ability to untap Simic Ringworm only? You can sign in to vote the answer. 6/8/2016. They’re generally written “ [Cost]: [Effect].”. Simic Ringworm's activated ability is [{U} untap Simic Ringworm.] Anytime a card refers to itself by name, you can substitute "This Card" in place of the name. The second Kraj ALSO sees the copied ability on Kraj #1 and copies THAT. An effect with an earlier timestamp is applied before an effect with a later timestamp. This is the correct version. 613.7. Rules: Experiment Kraj has all activated abilities of each other creature with a +1/+1 counter on it. The values of an object's characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. Yes, you can pay {U} to untap Kraj. What’s the difference between a friendly poker game and a serious poker game? 613.7a An effect is said to "depend on" another if (a) it's applied in the same layer (and, if applicable, sublayer) as the other effect (see rules 613.1 and 613.3); (b) applying the other would change the text or the existence of the first effect, what it applies to, or what it does to any of the things it applies to; and (c) neither effect is from a characteristic-defining ability or both effects are from characteristic-defining abilities. Unlike with cards like Quicksilver Elemental, the costs of the activated abilities Experiment Kraj gains must be paid with the correct colors of mana. Kraj was activated by Vig and Svogthir with the help of dragon cerebral fluid from one of the Cauldron dragons. If several dependent effects form a dependency loop, then this rule is ignored and the effects in the dependency loop are applied in timestamp order. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=43045. Let's say you have 2 Experiment Kraj (via Mirror Gallery or something) and a Patron of the Orochi on the battlefield, each with at least one +1/+1 counter on it. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. Did McCracken make that monolith in Utah? Can anyone help? They’re generally written “ [Cost]: [Effect].” So if you put a +1/+1 on Ragworm via Kraj, then Kraj will gain Ragworm's "{U}: Untap [this card]" ability. Artist: Mark Tedin. Otherwise, the effect is considered to be independent of the other effect. Next, we apply kraj #2's ability, giving kraj #2 three abilities: the counter-adding ability from kraj #1, the untapping ability from kraj #1, and the untapping ability from patron of the orochi. I was need to know, if I put a +1/+1 counter on Simic Ringworm, can I tap one blue mana to untap Experiment Kraj? There are ways around it...like using Mirror Gallery...which I mentioned... New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Simic Ringworm's activated ability is [{U} untap Simic Ringworm.] If a dependency exists, it will override the timestamp system. An effect is said to "depend on" another if (a) it's applied in the same layer (and, if applicable, sublayer) as the other effect (see rules 613.1 and 613.3); (b) applying the other would change the text or the existence of the first effect, what it applies to, or what it does to any of the things it applies to; and (c) neither effect is from a characteristic-defining ability or both effects are from characteristic-defining abilities. Experiment Kraj Rules Question [Judge Help Appreciated!] 613.7b An effect dependent on one or more other effects waits to apply until just after all of those effects have been applied. Rulings. Within a layer or sublayer, determining which order effects are applied in is usually done using a timestamp system. 5/1/2006. 5/1/2006. Then all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order: 613.1f Layer 6: Ability-adding and ability-removing effects are applied. Why do some people still play with pokemon cards. 6/8/2016 Activated abilities contain a colon. Mark Tedin. Was this Poker Hand played out correctly question? Activated abilities contain a colon. Otherwise, the effect is considered to be independent of the other effect. 110. Okay. The first Kraj sees Patron's ability, copies it. See below for more detail: There are two continuous effects attempting to add abilities. A diverse community of players devoted to Magic: the Gathering, a trading card game ("TCG") produced by Wizards of the Coast and originally designed by Richard Garfield. And if you check the Oracle text of Quicksilver Elemental it said: If any of the abilities use that creature's name, use this creature's name instead. Me and some friends were looking around and found this thread and Horseshoe_Hermit makes a very good claim. I looked at the rulings and it just... Kraj only gains activated abilities so if the ability has a colon in it, it's activated. I was need to know, if I put a +1/+1 counter on Simic Ringworm, can I tap one blue mana to untap Experiment Kraj? If multiple dependent effects would apply simultaneously in this way, they're applied in timestamp order relative to each other. The difference between Kraj and Quicksilver is Quicksilver's 2nd ability (a replacement ability) which said: You may spend blue mana as though it were mana of any color to pay the activation costs of Quicksilver Elemental's abilities. Card Rulings 5/1/2006 Unlike with cards like Quicksilver Elemental, the costs of the activated abilities Experiment Kraj gains must be paid with the correct colors of mana. 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EDH Recommendations and strategy content for Magic: the Gathering Commander Kraj #1 then sees 3 instances of the ability (2 on Kraj #2, 1 on Patron) on the battlefield and takes all of those, ending up with 3 copies of the ability on itself. Kraj #2 now has 2 instances of the Patron's ability. Join us discussing news, tournaments, gameplay, deckbuilding, strategy, lore, fan art, cosplay, and more. 2016-06-08: Activated abilities contain a colon. {U}: Untap Simic Ragworm actually means {U}: Untap [this card]. For example, you treat an ability that says "Sacrifice a creature: Nantuko Husk gets +2/+2 until end of turn" as "Sacrifice a creature: Quicksilver Elemental gets +2/+2 until end of turn.".